A podcast about performance in the criminal justice system
Stages of Justice takes you inside the world of theatre in the criminal justice system. For over fifty years, theatre companies have undertaken powerful creative projects at the heart of the British justice system, but because this work often takes place behind prison walls its impact is seldom seen by wider audiences. Through interviews with artists, prison staff, justice experts, and people with lived experience of incarceration we uncover the histories of these distinctive arts practices and examine how performance is navigating the contemporary crisis in our prisons. Across the series we reflect on the power of creativity to build human connection, spark change, and shift understandings of justice both onstage and off. Reflective, political and compelling, Stages of Justice shines a light on the potential of the arts in places you might least expect to find them.
Episodes
Episode 1: Questions of Arts, Justice and Punishment
What are our prisons for, punishment, containment, rehabilitation? And why is the public particularly sensitive about how people in prison spend their time? With the help of Professor Rosalind Crone (Open University), Paula Harriott (CEO Unlock), and a range of artists and prison experts, we dig into foundational questions for arts and criminal justice, attending to how histories of incarceration inform our prison system today and considering different roles arts practices might take on in this context: to humanise, heal, or cost effectively rehabilitate people.
Episode 2: Trailblazers
What does it take to be a trailblazer in a criminal justice system that isn’t built for change? We sit down with Anna Herrmann and Jacqueline Stewart (Clean Break Theatre Company) and Andy Watson (Geese Theatre Company) to trace some of the histories of arts and criminal justice in Britain. We also hear from those who led this work in the seventies and eighties: Jenny Hicks and Jacqueline Holborough, Saul Hewish and Corinna Seeds. Theatremakers who imagined there was a place for performance in a hostile prison system and then went about making it happen.
Episode 3: Prisons in Crisis and the Role of Artists
What happens to prison theatre when prisons are in crisis? Overcrowding, underfunding, staff shortages, and poor living conditions have persisted for years in Britain’s prisons. We kick off by talking to former prison governor and inspector John Podmore about the current state of the system. Then, around the table we have artistic directors Esther Baker (Synergy), Becky Boden (Unlock) Simon Ruding (TiPP) to talk about how arts initiatives survive, and support people in prisons, amid ongoing systemic pressures.
Episode 4: Prison Theatre on Public Stages
The criminal justice system operates in our name, so understanding it matters; but where do we get our information? Perhaps through experience, second-hand stories, or media portrayals. This episode explores what role theatre can play in bridging the divide between those affected by the system and a wider public. We hear from Saul Hewish (Rideout), Catrina McHugh (Open Clasp) and Jason York (Kestrel Theatre), all theatremakers using performance to engage audiences inside and outside our justice system.
Bonus Episode with Catrina McHugh
In this unedited bonus episode, I speak with Catrina McHugh from Open Clasp Theatre about creating activist performance with women affected by exclusion. We discuss how the company’s work has been both incredibly local to the North East of England and has also travelled to audiences from New York to New Zealand. We talk about how amplifying often unheard voices can transcend the prison walls and resonate across geographies.
Bonus Episode with John Podmore
This bonus episode is the uncut interview with John Podmore, a leading expert on the British prison system with over forty years experience as a governor, inspector and reform advocate. In Stages of Justice, he explains why creativity is not a luxury but a vital force for transformation in our prisons.
Bonus Episode with Corinna Seeds
Corinna Seeds is the founder of Stirrabout Theatre and a force to be reckoned with. In this bonus episode of Stages of Justice, I share my full conversation with Corinna, where she reflects on her experience establishing Britain’s first company created to bring theatre into prisons. Founded in 1974 and disbanded in 1983 due to funding cuts and a hostile arts climate, Corinna shares some of the challenges, surprises and excitement of making theatre in prisons against all the odds.
Bonus Episode with Paula Harriott
What can the arts do in prisons? In this bonus episode of Stages of Justice, I speak with Paula Harriott, CEO of Unlock, about her journey from incarceration to advocacy for people with convictions and her encounters with creativity along the way. We explore how justice could move beyond punishment toward healing, the role of arts in human experience, and the importance of including lived experience in reform
Bonus Episode with Professor Rosalind Crone
What are prisons for? In this bonus episode of Stages of Justice, you’ll hear the full conversation with Professor Rosalind Crone about how our ideas of punishment, rehabilitation, and prison education in Britain have developed over time. We explore the role of arts and education in prisons and question how activities inside have been framed in different ways across history.
Podcast Team
Host Dr Sarah Bartley
Co-host Shona Babyemi
Producer Debbie Kilbride
Executive Producer Sukey Firth
Sound Engineer Max Aspen
Original music composed by Rex Horan
Visual design Russell Miller
Thanks go to staff at the Royal Central School of Speech and Drama, particularly Laura Wardle, Phil Rowe, Samuel Bailey, Bryce Lease, Amy Ryall, and Izzy Stuart.
Stages of Justice was funded by the Arts and Humanities Research Council, with additional support from Royal Central School of Speech and Drama.
Staging Justice 